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	<title>Comments on: Eulogy for news voice</title>
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	<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/</link>
	<description>Time to stop breaking the news, and start fixing it.*</description>
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		<title>By: The Digitel &#171; InOtherNews.us</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-1291</link>
		<dc:creator>The Digitel &#171; InOtherNews.us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-1291</guid>
		<description>[...] Offer helpful context, analysis, and background as we know it. This is done in large part by avoiding news voice. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Offer helpful context, analysis, and background as we know it. This is done in large part by avoiding news voice. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A category error - Dave Herrera (.org)</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-1167</link>
		<dc:creator>A category error - Dave Herrera (.org)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 04:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-1167</guid>
		<description>[...] by Neil Browne. (Return to post)  3. Thompson argued a similar point in an earlier post of his, Eulogy for news voice. (Return to post)  4. One of my favorite books I read in the last year, Our Unfree Press: 100 Years [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by Neil Browne. (Return to post)  3. Thompson argued a similar point in an earlier post of his, Eulogy for news voice. (Return to post)  4. One of my favorite books I read in the last year, Our Unfree Press: 100 Years [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Five concrete steps to improving the news at Newsless.org</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-1138</link>
		<dc:creator>Five concrete steps to improving the news at Newsless.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-1138</guid>
		<description>[...] Let the blog be the DVD commentary to your reporting. Refer to it wherever your stories appear. Make it clear that the blog is the place to go for those who want the inside scoop on how your process works. Then deliver. Make sure it&#8217;s written in your voice, not news voice. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Let the blog be the DVD commentary to your reporting. Refer to it wherever your stories appear. Make it clear that the blog is the place to go for those who want the inside scoop on how your process works. Then deliver. Make sure it&#8217;s written in your voice, not news voice. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Andersen</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Andersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-987</guid>
		<description>I should add that I say this in full understanding that every article has a point of view, etc. But as I think your post acknowledges, some have stronger points of view than others. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that I say this in full understanding that every article has a point of view, etc. But as I think your post acknowledges, some have stronger points of view than others.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Andersen</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Andersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-986</guid>
		<description>Good stuff, Matt. Two possible countervailing forces: 
 
- As you say, analysis is harder than no-analysis. Therefore some outlets will still find a competitive advantage in churning out fact-rich, analysis-poor information as quickly as possible. 
 
- More perilously: I think news junkies like you and I (and most of your readers) should be wary of projecting our preferences onto the general public&#039;s. To most casual news readers -- not the ones who send emails or post comments, but the ones who glance at front pages on their way to the comics -- an article that&#039;s been carefully pruned into evenhandedness can often be &lt;i&gt;more useful&lt;/i&gt; and easier to digest than one that takes a point of view. Deciphering and evaluating points of view -- learning to distinguish Ezra Klein from Mickey Kaus from Glenn Reynolds -- is a task best suited to people willing to spend a lot of time gathering news. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff, Matt. Two possible countervailing forces: </p>
<p>- As you say, analysis is harder than no-analysis. Therefore some outlets will still find a competitive advantage in churning out fact-rich, analysis-poor information as quickly as possible. </p>
<p>- More perilously: I think news junkies like you and I (and most of your readers) should be wary of projecting our preferences onto the general public&#039;s. To most casual news readers &#8212; not the ones who send emails or post comments, but the ones who glance at front pages on their way to the comics &#8212; an article that&#039;s been carefully pruned into evenhandedness can often be <i>more useful</i> and easier to digest than one that takes a point of view. Deciphering and evaluating points of view &#8212; learning to distinguish Ezra Klein from Mickey Kaus from Glenn Reynolds &#8212; is a task best suited to people willing to spend a lot of time gathering news.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Josefowicz</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-979</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Josefowicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-979</guid>
		<description>My two cents. The Twitter format of a 140 characters or live blogging at an event is, in my view, the best way to get the facts as they happen. I read the live blogging from one of the President&#039;s press conferences at WSJ. Because time was so limited, there was no analysis. Just an amazingly skilled reporter being able to communicate what they saw happening at the moment.   
   
There is just no getting around the truth that after the event, the selection of facts is fraught with implicit judgments and the selections are filtered through personal and socially supported lens. It&#039;s why jury trials have such a hard time figuring out the &quot;facts of the case&quot; and why eye witnesses are sometimes the most unreliable. It&#039;s also why lawyers spend so much of their time finding and presenting the &quot;facts of the case.&quot; And historians do the same. Presenting the facts in a particular order is the &quot;analysis&quot; in the sense of the patterns that create meaning for the reader or viewer or jury.  
   
To be clear, I am not suggesting that events are not amenable to becoming facts. Merely that it is a complex process. I agree with Terry&#039;s point about &quot;just the facts, ma&#039;am.&quot; I&#039;m just saying that translating facts into useful data points might be exactly the  irreducible value of journalism. Everyone is entitled to do &quot;analysis&quot; or &quot;commentary&quot;. Some patterns emerging from the data points work for me. Some don&#039;t. But that&#039;s not the core of the journalist&#039;s job. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My two cents. The Twitter format of a 140 characters or live blogging at an event is, in my view, the best way to get the facts as they happen. I read the live blogging from one of the President&#39;s press conferences at WSJ. Because time was so limited, there was no analysis. Just an amazingly skilled reporter being able to communicate what they saw happening at the moment.   </p>
<p>There is just no getting around the truth that after the event, the selection of facts is fraught with implicit judgments and the selections are filtered through personal and socially supported lens. It&#39;s why jury trials have such a hard time figuring out the &quot;facts of the case&quot; and why eye witnesses are sometimes the most unreliable. It&#39;s also why lawyers spend so much of their time finding and presenting the &quot;facts of the case.&quot; And historians do the same. Presenting the facts in a particular order is the &quot;analysis&quot; in the sense of the patterns that create meaning for the reader or viewer or jury.  </p>
<p>To be clear, I am not suggesting that events are not amenable to becoming facts. Merely that it is a complex process. I agree with Terry&#39;s point about &quot;just the facts, ma&#39;am.&quot; I&#39;m just saying that translating facts into useful data points might be exactly the  irreducible value of journalism. Everyone is entitled to do &quot;analysis&quot; or &quot;commentary&quot;. Some patterns emerging from the data points work for me. Some don&#39;t. But that&#39;s not the core of the journalist&#39;s job.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Steichen</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-974</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Steichen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-974</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know that we differ - if it&#039;s a news story, I (and, I suspect, you) look for facts.  If it&#039;s an analysis, I expect a bit more perspective (necessitating some interpretation).  And if it&#039;s commentary, I expect something entirely different. 
 
I agree that what you call the &quot;voice-of-God&quot; presentation is useless and misleading.  The way I see it, when a reporter adopts that mannerism, they&#039;re concealing the details and over-generalizing.  It&#039;s as if, when my source(s) say it, it&#039;s &quot;obviously&quot; quite true and you (the reader) don&#039;t need to know the details. 
 
So, at this point, are we seeing the issue in a similar way? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t know that we differ &#8211; if it&#039;s a news story, I (and, I suspect, you) look for facts.  If it&#039;s an analysis, I expect a bit more perspective (necessitating some interpretation).  And if it&#039;s commentary, I expect something entirely different. </p>
<p>I agree that what you call the &quot;voice-of-God&quot; presentation is useless and misleading.  The way I see it, when a reporter adopts that mannerism, they&#039;re concealing the details and over-generalizing.  It&#039;s as if, when my source(s) say it, it&#039;s &quot;obviously&quot; quite true and you (the reader) don&#039;t need to know the details. </p>
<p>So, at this point, are we seeing the issue in a similar way?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-973</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-973</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s say we differ on whether we prefer our journalists to provide &quot;just-the-facts&quot; or analysis, but that&#039;s not what I&#039;m disagreeing with you on here, Terry. I&#039;m completely agnostic on whether facts or analysis are wanted, or what constitutes what. My argument in this post is purely about presentation. Whether what we&#039;re presenting is primarily factual or analytical, I think presenting it in the stentorian, voice-of-God style that we&#039;ve grown accustomed to is harmful.  
 
The reason that, as you say, the second version I provided above is more &quot;specific and factual&quot; is because it does away with the view-from-nowhere &lt;em&gt;presentational&lt;/em&gt; convention that the first attempts to mimic. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#039;s say we differ on whether we prefer our journalists to provide &quot;just-the-facts&quot; or analysis, but that&#039;s not what I&#039;m disagreeing with you on here, Terry. I&#039;m completely agnostic on whether facts or analysis are wanted, or what constitutes what. My argument in this post is purely about presentation. Whether what we&#039;re presenting is primarily factual or analytical, I think presenting it in the stentorian, voice-of-God style that we&#039;ve grown accustomed to is harmful.  </p>
<p>The reason that, as you say, the second version I provided above is more &quot;specific and factual&quot; is because it does away with the view-from-nowhere <em>presentational</em> convention that the first attempts to mimic.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Steichen</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-972</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Steichen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-972</guid>
		<description>Matt, 
 
I see I&#039;m not making my point clearly enough.  I expect the writer of a news story to convey to me facts.  The reporter&#039;s only job is to let me know what happened.  However, I think we agree that this needs to rise above stenography; some degree of interpretation is necessary to translate &#039;he-said/she-said&#039; into more factual and useful description. 
 
If, rather than a news report, the writer has produced an analysis piece, that&#039;s different.  However, in this case, in most situations, I&#039;m not as interested in the reporter&#039;s interpretation of the situation as I would be of the interpretation of others (interviewed by the reporter) who may have a lot more credibility (than the reporter, per se). 
 
If the reporter is writing commentary, I&#039;m interested if I value the insights of the commentary writer.  If the writer has a reputation and history of providing what I consider valuable insights, I will appreciate and read it.  Otherwise, I could care less what the writer is saying. 
 
Put bluntly, I don&#039;t we should assume that a good reporter necessarily has good insights into the dynamics behind the news events, let alone deep and useful opinions about the forces at work behind the events.  It&#039;s nice when they do, but in that case, we have to be careful not to confuse facts and speculation/opinion. 
 
In the examples you cite in your latest response, you state that the reporters involved are (and I gather, should be, in your view) providing &quot;analysis.&quot;  As to your example sentence, I would agree that the second version is superior simply because it is more specific and factual - but neither of the two versions involve any analysis per se. 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, </p>
<p>I see I&#039;m not making my point clearly enough.  I expect the writer of a news story to convey to me facts.  The reporter&#039;s only job is to let me know what happened.  However, I think we agree that this needs to rise above stenography; some degree of interpretation is necessary to translate &#039;he-said/she-said&#039; into more factual and useful description. </p>
<p>If, rather than a news report, the writer has produced an analysis piece, that&#039;s different.  However, in this case, in most situations, I&#039;m not as interested in the reporter&#039;s interpretation of the situation as I would be of the interpretation of others (interviewed by the reporter) who may have a lot more credibility (than the reporter, per se). </p>
<p>If the reporter is writing commentary, I&#039;m interested if I value the insights of the commentary writer.  If the writer has a reputation and history of providing what I consider valuable insights, I will appreciate and read it.  Otherwise, I could care less what the writer is saying. </p>
<p>Put bluntly, I don&#039;t we should assume that a good reporter necessarily has good insights into the dynamics behind the news events, let alone deep and useful opinions about the forces at work behind the events.  It&#039;s nice when they do, but in that case, we have to be careful not to confuse facts and speculation/opinion. </p>
<p>In the examples you cite in your latest response, you state that the reporters involved are (and I gather, should be, in your view) providing &quot;analysis.&quot;  As to your example sentence, I would agree that the second version is superior simply because it is more specific and factual &#8211; but neither of the two versions involve any analysis per se.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.newsless.org/2009/07/eulogy-for-news-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-971</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsless.org/?p=411#comment-971</guid>
		<description>Part of what I&#039;m saying is that in Henry&#039;s case, he&#039;s &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; giving you the facts and helping you decide. He&#039;s giving you just as much analysis and interpretation as Cohn is and hiding it behind the veneer of news voice. Only, unlike Cohn, you have less material with which to assess that analysis. You have no idea how Henry came to his conclusions. You have at least some idea how Cohn came to his. 
 
But I guess the Cohn/Henry case is askance of my main argument. In brief, I think this sentence... 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;A senior staffer for a Democratic Senator expressed concerns that Obama&#039;s health care reform plan was moving too quickly to accommodate the lengthy bipartisan negotiation process.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
... is journalistically and narratively inferior to this one ... 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;I got an e-mail this afternoon from one of my regular sources, a senior staffer in a Democratic senator&#039;s office, saying he worries Obama&#039;s quick timeline on health reform is making it hard to bring Republicans on board.&lt;/blockquote&gt;  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of what I&#039;m saying is that in Henry&#039;s case, he&#039;s <strong>not</strong> giving you the facts and helping you decide. He&#039;s giving you just as much analysis and interpretation as Cohn is and hiding it behind the veneer of news voice. Only, unlike Cohn, you have less material with which to assess that analysis. You have no idea how Henry came to his conclusions. You have at least some idea how Cohn came to his. </p>
<p>But I guess the Cohn/Henry case is askance of my main argument. In brief, I think this sentence&#8230; </p>
<blockquote><p>A senior staffer for a Democratic Senator expressed concerns that Obama&#039;s health care reform plan was moving too quickly to accommodate the lengthy bipartisan negotiation process.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230; is journalistically and narratively inferior to this one &#8230; </p>
<blockquote><p>I got an e-mail this afternoon from one of my regular sources, a senior staffer in a Democratic senator&#039;s office, saying he worries Obama&#039;s quick timeline on health reform is making it hard to bring Republicans on board.</p></blockquote>
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